Linda Cleary of Imperva Incapsula – The Complicated Stack, Corporate AI Strategies, and Preparing for 4X Growth

Linda Cleary is the Director of Demand Generation for Imperva Incapsula. Her team is responsible for all inbound and outbound marketing lead generation programs for the enterprise cloud security company.

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Linda Cleary, Director of Demand Generation at Imperva Incapsula talks about an exceptionally complex stack and the challenges of preparing for 4x growth including:

  • Personal Touch Versus AI
  • Global Operations and Project Management
  • Helping Prospects Under Attack
  • Why The Stack Is Not All About Integration

Read the Transcript

John J. Wall: Hello, and welcome to Stack and Flow. I’m John Wall.

Sean Zinsmeister: I’m Sean Zinsmeister.

John: Today’s guest is Linda Cleary, the director of Demand Generation at Imperva Incapsula, a company that does computer network and security, but we’ll let her tell us more about that. Linda, welcome to the show.

Linda Cleary: Thank you very much, and thank you for having me. It’s a pleasure to be here. I am the director of Demand Generation. I almost like to call it a little bit more Director of Demand Direction. Imperva is cybersecurity, and I manage all of the demand programs under the Incapsula product line. On premises, web application, firewall protection, everything enterprise related.

John: All right, and also with us today, Sean Zinsmeister from Infer. Sean, you’ve got the news. One of the stories that you had sent over was about AI for the enterprise. What have you been watching over there?

Sean: Yeah. Well, I think this seems to be a recurring topic that we’re seeing more and more people write about, but this is now becoming more prevalent for larger enterprises as they start to think about what their AI strategy is. I think that the easiest way to really start to think about this is, what does your automation strategy look like? I think that people get too caught up with the science fiction of everything, where people are jumping to, “oh, well, people are going to lose their jobs to bots”, and things like that. It’s really more that, I think that there’s a re-imagining of automation that is starting to happen now that things like data science, machine learning are starting to become more prevalent and a bit more mainstream, especially in the business world. We have a ways to go.

I’m thinking back to a couple episodes where we caught up with Adrian Chang over at Oracle, and he was talking about the job board that they have in the Topliners Community where he’s starting to see more and more and more demand for data science centric positions, or marketing professionals who bring data science chops, machine learning chops. It’s something I know you talk about with Chris Penn quite a bit. We’re still a little bit aways in terms of where the talent pool is, to catch up with that, but I think that when it comes to CRM in particular, really to me it’s all about data hygiene. You and I have talked about this before, about how do you control the quality of data from point of entry versus a lot of these enterprises where they have what I call a termite problem, where the data just gets bad. It’s not something that you can walk away and hope it gets better. It’s like, the termites are going to keep eating through the floor until the foundation falls over.

If you don’t solve those things with either technology or better governance, as I say, I think that that’s going to be something that AI will be able to hopefully put more checks and balances and systems to help with that. Linda, I’m curious. As you guys think about automation and where you’re going, especially, more interesting, I want to dive into because you guys just went through a big acquisition as well. How are you guys starting to think about AI and a strategy around that, and get your thoughts on what you’re seeing there?

Linda: Yeah, definitely. I have actually a funny story about that. We interviewed Conversica. The LDR team reports into me, and so it was looking at a strategy to handle these thousands of leads that they get on a daily basis. It was really fun because we kind of broke it. We listened to their demo, and one of my SDR’s on the team had signed up with his Imperva email address, and then also separately with his Incapsula email address. It got so confused and wouldn’t let him opt out, and so we were like, okay. That’s the beauty of having both a parent company domain and also a product line domain, but we said, you know, I think this is not going to work out too well. I think we’re also going after developers, and developers are smart cookies. I think if they sniff any kind of fakeness with the CRM automation approach, then I think it’s just not going to work.

Sean: Yeah, and that’s something where it’s just like, where does the balance with automation come with the human touch, too, right? Where just because you can automate it, should you? I think that one of the things we talk about a lot on this show is, especially with the rise of sales automation, where it’s like, yeah sure. Now that your sales people have little, essentially, mini marketing automation systems at their disposal, is that necessarily a good thing? I mean, personalization is more than just field merge type of stuff. I think that I get messages even from, I think the worst is when you get messages from people who are friends of yours, like personal friends, and then you get the marketing blast and you’re like, really? What did I do to deserve this?

Linda: Yeah. I just think that we’re not ready for AI right now because, I mean, think about the Marketo versus Salesforce nurturing activity. We’re always caught up against this. Somebody’s opted out of our Marketo marketing emails, but somehow they’re still getting emailed by somebody at our domain through ToutApp. Those systems, they just do not communicate, so it’s a very manual process to maintain just the high touch nurturing we want to continue, and then also not conflict with the sales activities. It’s complicated.

Sean: I completely agree. This is why I look through an interested lens about the people who are talking about account based marketing and the ABM mania that’s upon us right now. Now people are all talking about orchestration and plays and things like that. In theory, I think it sounds pretty good, but in my experience it’s like, a lot of marketers out there, a lot of businesses struggle to put together the most basic of marketing automation drip campaigns, let alone trying to think about how you’re going to automate this with data science or even without data science. Trying to orchestrate several different human touches towards a focused ABM campaign. It just seems like it might be a little far fetched. Are you guys, are you looking at ABM as a strategy in general or some of the technologies there?

Linda: Yeah. Well, of course. We’re not set up for ABM on the Salesforce side, but that’s how sales is wanting to approach our marketing and sales effort, so we’re sort of doing it. We kind of hacked it, I guess you could say. For example, when I go out and acquire a list of net new names from whatever vendor, we are very hyper-focused on having a certain number of titles at a certain company. Then when we enter them into the system that, if a rep is working any one or two leads from that company, then let’s assign the rest to that individual. It’s a little, like I said, we have to kind of hack it in, but it makes a lot of sense to us.

Sean: Yeah. I’ve always described it to other people like, ABM is going to be an important part of your marketing mix. I can see more companies as they want to go upstream and expand their revenue portfolios, it makes a lot of sense. It’s funny, I was catching up with Ray Miller who runs marketing operations. He’s been on the show previously over at Social Tables. He was talking about the dangers of ABM that he was speaking at where, I’ve always described it as ABM is a very heavy strategy. It’s very focused, for sure, but it also can be very heavy in terms of where you’re focusing all of those resources. They had this big deal for this huge hotel conglomerate that they were going after and they used a lot of ABM, super focused. The problem is, yeah they won the business, but they also forsake all the other leads and prospects that they were supposed to, and so it’s just like, you’re going to have to find that balancing act.

John, what about you? I know you had some thoughts there, especially if we’re looking at the ABM front.

John: Yeah, I don’t know. Over the past month as I’ve been thinking and watching more of this stuff, I’m starting to be a lot more suspicious. There’s so many things that are black swan events, or they’re entrepreneurial things that no one has ever done before, and when you’re coming up with these messages and trying to figure out what works, that can only be done with the human touch. Automation of that is just not going to help you. We see so many of these bad campaigns like you were talking about, companies that struggle just to get a drip campaign together, and it’s a garbage campaign. It’s the same, the first email is like, hey, wouldn’t you be interested in this? Then the next three are like, boy, I noticed you didn’t open my email. Could you please get back to me, kind of pleading stuff, and it’s just all garbage.

Linda: You know, you definitely need that human touch. I have another good story situation where we as Incapsula sell more to the mid market, and then the other Imperva products are higher up on the enterprise scale. PayPal, an account that was owned by an Imperva rep, and one of my LDR’s, so the lowest rung on the sales pole so to speak, her dad knew somebody that ran the demand team at PayPal, and so she ended up making a very personal connection with him. He said, “oh, you know what, we’re actually in the market for cyber security products”, and so she connected her contact to the Imperva rep. It was really, again, very manual, very human touch, but it was a good story for her and she felt good.

John: Yeah, this is a good point too. Let’s jump in. Tell us more about Imperva and what are your normal customers like, the services you offer. Give us the whole story.

Linda: Sure, sure. Mid-market. We pretty much aim for the one thousand and below employee level, and we’re looking at folks that have at least one if not more than one website that they want to protect. It’s both an on-premise and a cloud hybrid network, and we are content delivery as well as web application firewall. Protecting your business against DDoS attacks. As you know, probably from watching the news, they’re happening probably daily. We’re not seeing them all, but we had particular actual demand program success with responding to the Mirai botnet of recent weeks, and taking down sites like PayPal, for example. Spotify, the New York Times. That’s what we do at a high level.

Our customer, so this is also the beauty of both the account approach and also the human touch to the social summary is, we don’t really know, I think, at the end who exactly the buyer is going to be. For example, at smaller companies, there is no CSO, there is no C level that is involved with security. You almost have the net ops engineer, or somebody else in the IT department, or maybe somebody who’s managing the website. We really enjoy taking a close look at the signals. We have Infer in place, and so we’re always looking at the signals to see what are the ones that are responding the most, and in what geo, and more often than not it’s the CEO of all things.

Sean: With that, and it’s a perfect opportunity to jump into the stack and talk about a little bit about your guys’ demand funnel. Tell us a little bit about, how are you guys acquiring folks at the top of the funnel, and then what are some of the different technologies that you’re using that make out that stack?

Linda: I’m responsible for both inbound and outbound marketing, and our sales teams worldwide get, I would say, eighty to ninety percent of their deals and the flow through the leads that marketing is supplying them. That’s been a little bit unusual. This is the first place where marketing and sales are at the table and there’s quite a bit of really good communication between both teams.

Top funnel activities. All events and webinars and all email automation and marketing activities and advocacy fall under demand at Incapsula. We’re using Vidyard for our video marketing, we’re using BrightTALK for our webinar production, we’re using Meetups,, we’re using LiveChat for chat, Sprout Social for social activities. At the attribution level, Bizible, and of course Marketo and Salesforce as well. Then on the sales side of the house, on the social selling, we’ve got ToutApp and that’s soon to be exited in favor of Outreach. Then I’m also using a bit of Datanyze plus Dun & Bradstreet for data acquisition. Then we also have Reachforce working in the background.

Sean: That’s interesting. One of the things that I wanted to ask you, which I always think is interesting about how it affects the stack, is that you were at Incapsula before you guys were acquired by Imperva. What’s that experience like in terms of how you guys are looking at your technology stack? Has it been status quo, or are you looking at just an opportunity to grow it? What’s that experience been like?

Linda: That’s interesting. The approach that we take to programs on a larger level as well. What’s working, what’s not working, what can we exit out in favor of something new? I would say that we had sort of these grandfathered in technologies. We had a Marketo Instance, we had GoToWebinar, and these platforms, these technologies that we were using. All of a sudden, with Imperva IT, we had to go through rigorous assessments and security evaluations of technologies that we were already using, so it was a little academic, I thought.

We have also, along the way, realized that we weren’t using some of the technologies to their fullest capability. Bizible, we finally have that firing on all of the cylinders. Marketo, probably a bit overused in terms of reliance for our lead lifecycle, so we’ve taken a lot of the focus off of Marketo to populate lead source fields and that kind of thing. Using it for what it’s good for, which is email automation and de-duping and data at the very top levels. Then other new things, we’re always trying. Unbounce, Hotjar, we are looking at some other more robust reporting tools. Tableau we finally got in place. There’s a lot out there, but I think that our stack isn’t as unwieldy as I think I’ve seen in other places, but there’s definitely a lot going on there.

John: Yeah, definitely. It’s great to see that whole map. I wanted to step back to something that you mentioned, which was an area that was near and dear to my heart in the past about how it’s not the C level that’s buying. You have these network admins or webmasters or who knows what these titles are. You have all these titles, that’s such a challenge that people don’t realize. You mentioned Dun & Bradstreet. You can’t just go and buy a list of security director. These titles are all over the place. Can you tell us a little bit more about handling the title challenge and qualification, too? How do you qualify leads and lists? What are some of the things you’ve got going there?

Linda: The beauty of having so many different types of programs under demand is that we get to constantly learn from shared learning. For example, paid Twitter and we can do targeting and all of my PPC campaigns, and we look at the results there and who’s responding and looking at the entire life cycle. I mean, those leads take a bit longer to warm up, but looking at who’s responding to our assets and then using that learning to populate a title range for which I’d like some data pended through Dun & Bradstreet, or using technology data. Did a certain domain add a CDN, or do they have a CDN, and then using that as a target to supply to Dun & Bradstreet and give me a title range at those places.

Then just good old fashioned following up on events and webinars. Who’s raising their hands during a webinar and asking a question? Who are these people that are highly engaged with our content? More often than not, we’re getting quite a bit of traction with our very own database, and we have hundreds of thousands of leads in there, folks that are responding to our programs and having watched five plus webinars over the course of six months and interacted with a white paper, then we consider that a highly engaged lead and more often than not, they’ll turn into a customer.

Sean: One question that I have is that you mentioned that you have a couple different communications platforms going on there. You have Marketo that’s handling some of the marketing communications, then you guys have Tout, and then soon you guys are moving to Outreach as that sales communication. How are you guys splitting up the flow, as it were, about where the sales machine kicks in versus when you’re using Marketo for nurture? What does that look like?

Linda: Good question. It’s different for every program. Typically, what we do is we say, we’ll put a lead or a collection of leads through a traditional Marketo drip campaign, and then the responders we consider warm enough to up-level to sales on some level. Sometimes, for example, we just organized a list based on Alexa ranking, and sales wants them this quarter, which is like, yesterday. We don’t really have time to traditionally Marketo drip them, but we did have at least one or two emails that went out, so we were able to up-level, whatever, the one to two percent of responders to sales right away, and then they’re able to work their magic either through Salesforce or through something like ToutApp, or Outreach in this case.

It gets a little tricky, like I mentioned, with the opt-outs and maintaining data hygiene on that level, and then also making sure that the sync is happening properly between Marketo and Salesforce with regard to the opt-out. We realized that there was a field that wasn’t getting properly checked at the Salesforce instance, so folks that had opted out of our preference center were opted back in again. Always a fun process, but I think as long as we’re communicating with sales on a regular basis and understanding what their needs are and what the challenges are, then we’re able to respond quickly.

Sean: Speaking of those sales needs, I think the other thing that’s interesting, we were talking about the rise of sales technology and things like that. How are decisions made across the aisle for technological decisions? Is that something that you partner with the other sales leaders to figure out, okay, this is going to be the best platform because it works like this in this stack, or is it more of an independent buying where they come to you with what they need and where they’re filling in the gap? How does that alignment work?

Linda: Yeah. That’s a good question. In a few cases, for example with Outreach it was just, okay, ToutApp’s not working, we’re going to select Outreach because it’s got the dialog capability whereas Tout didn’t in some cases. In that particular case it was, we were invited to the table to interview the technology, but it had basically already been selected. It had already gone through the IT assessment. It’s more just making sure that it has all the capabilities that we need, that we have the right package, and that the stakeholders on the marketing side, so my LDR team, is aware and is a part of the onboarding process from the very beginning.

Then there are other tools like Datanyze, which came about … Sales has their own budget, so they are able to bring on some of these technologies. I think where it gets tricky is with the integration. Is it simply sitting on top of Salesforce, or is it necessary that it syncs with Marketo and does Marketo have the capability to handle it? I think that’s where it gets tricky and that’s where my marketing operations team comes in and we try to ask all those questions and all those gotcha’s, because at the need, the technology folks are going to say, “hey, you know what, it’s on the roadmap”, or, “we have this capability”, but do they really and to the extent that we need them to?

John: That’s great. Tell us more about the flow now then. I mean, you’re already leading into there of how it’s coming in through sales and it’s moving along. Do you have a customer and prospect map of where you want them to go, and how do you deal with hygiene at the end? Give us some highlights of your flow.

Linda: Typically, everything starts and ends in Marketo. We’ll acquire net new names and visitors and folks that have completed forms through Marketo. At a certain stage, they will sync to Salesforce. They’re typically there already, but due to Infer in place and our tiering system that has taken the focus off of Marketo for attribution and placed it squarely with Salesforce, sales is able to follow up on leads right away if they want to. Especially if it’s … We have a tiering system, so if it’s a tier one lead that is under DDoS attack, then that goes right into the sales queue and the first person who can acquire that alert will be able to follow up on that lead.

John: I hate to break in. That just strikes me as the boiler room scene where they guy’s like, “got a lead”.

Linda: Yeah. Those are the hottest leads, right? Under attack. Typically leads will remain in our system for years, really, on the Marketo side until we deem them appropriate to move over to sales. We have, like I mentioned, we have a tiering system, so those are the tier one leads. Then we have other folks that are maybe within a trial or whatnot, and then we have this god awful amount of thousands of leads of just folks that are interested in our assets and are sort of taking their time or may not be the right buyer, or maybe are a bit too small for us to follow up on. Maybe they’re students and whatnot.

Data hygiene is absolutely a top concern of ours. We, at the form level, have all our marketing best practices in place. We constantly have Reachforce, like I mentioned, in place. We have their SmartForms product, which is also quite good. You know, you just absolutely have to have that human touch in order to make sure that we’re not exiting folks that could very well be likely buyers. For example, having the corporate domain could be an indicator of a likely buyer, but more often than not someone has entered their Gmail address, and so I wouldn’t discount that. We do also have something called BriteVerify at the email domain level, and that’s something new that we just entered in place.

Like I said, this lower tier, these tier three leads, we have them all cycling directly to my LDR team to call down. Now, a lot of those aren’t valid folks, or they’re keyboard smash as one of my LDR’s calls them, someone’s just entering random data. Don’t you love the millennials? Gathering those leads, those net news, those hundreds of leads per week, running through BriteVerify, and exiting, twenty percent of those are junk domains. They don’t have to see twenty percent of the leads that are coming through our system, which is huge. Also, just eyeballing those twenty percent. It could be a link to the customer account and we weren’t aware, or it could be somebody keyboard smashing, but associated with a partner or another campaign.

Sean: You talked about just looking at the stack and almost even looking ahead, too. You talked about the importance of integration and you have a lot of different solutions everywhere from the stuff you’re doing at the front and how you’re enriching, to predictive analytics, to how it hooks into Marketo. What we hear a lot from people is the demand for openness and open architecture. When you’re evaluating new technologies, Linda, is this something that you’re really looking at to make sure that the data will be able to flow from one to another to make sure everything talks to each other? Is that almost a must have for you at this point?

Linda: I mean, uber, uber focused on that. Absolutely. When I hear “we integrate with everybody”, that’s nearly a turnoff, actually, I would say. What we want to know is what is your core competency, what’s the capability, are you a Marketo product, are you a Salesforce product, and then we look at that sync, and then we look at the flows. Our lead life cycle architecture is, I heard a vendor say, probably the most complicated that he’s ever seen. It’s quite unwieldily, there’s quite a bit going on there. As simple as we can make any kind of tool integration to improve that flow, to improve that process, then that’s absolutely part of the evaluation.

John: You obviously are talking about evaluating tools and you’ve got a bunch of criteria that you go through when you select them. How about when you prune them off on the back end, too? Do you do scheduled reviews of what’s working and not working, or how does stuff eventually fall off the list?

Linda: Yeah, it’s not quite that prescriptive. Typically what we’ll do is we’ll take a look at what type of value … How did we onboard the tool to begin with, is it providing that value? For example, we’ve just moved essentially from GoToWebinar to BrightTALK, and that’s mostly just to look at new lead acquisition and just the network that BrightTALK offers. I would say that on the sales side, it’s who’s using LeadLander anymore? Is it even working for us? If half of our leads are quote unquote “non corporate domains”, then it’s probably not working for the SDR team that’s tasked with outbound.

I would say it’s looking at cost on some level, but mostly usage, value, how many seats did we have, are they being utilized, can we jump on a contract with some of our other product lines as well, does that make sense? It’s a little all over the map for the moment, but I would say that we’re more often than not trying to utilize what we have already in place, and look at new things as they make sense but not too many because we’ve got a lot going on.

Sean: The other thing I wanted to ask you, you mentioned that the LDR team rolls out to you. What does the rest of your team layout look like? It’s just the LDR’s? Do you have other functions? What’s the org structure look like?

Linda: Absolutely. I’ve got an LDR team, two of those. They serve the world, and then I have one marketing ops individual, also just uber focused on reporting, and I have a community manager, and she’s in charge of advocacy and those programs, and an email marketing manager as well. Hoping to bring PPC in house this year, coming up, but right now we’re outsourcing a bunch of our advertising.

Sean: That’s awesome. Again you have multiple different types of functions that roll out to you. The one thing I like to ask people is about project management, and how do you go about getting things done and coordinating everything? Is there a project management tool that you use, like an Asana or something, or what do you guys use to get organized and make sure that everybody’s, okay, this is what the goals are and here’s how we’re going to hit them?

Linda: Well you know what, I started doing something called Daily Demand Gen Stand Up, where literally it’s like ten a.m., okay let’s all stand up. Okay, what are we working on? Okay, good. Beyond that, Google Docs has been increasingly something that we’re relying on. It’s, like I said, a bit unwieldily, but because we have some of our marketing functions in Tel Aviv, international, we’ve introduced Asana between the marketing teams but it’s not been very easily adopted and I think, frankly, it’s because of some of the alerts and folks not being able to manage all of the different workspaces. More often than not it’s good old fashioned conference calls and in person stand ups.

Sean: I know that pain quite well, having cycled through a lot of different project management tools. You know what I found? I’ll tell you a quick anecdote. I was sitting at an event with my buddy, Joe Chernov, people know him as a content superstar. He’s over as VP Marketing at InsideSquared. He’s looking at his phone, and it’s just like, all these different messaging things, and he’s like, “god, I can’t believe, do I really need another thing to send me notifications?” He’s like, “I’ve got Docs, I’ve got Slack, I’ve got text message and now I’ve got email, and now I’ve got this other thing”, and I’m like, yeah.

That actually is a big part of it, which is why it’s so difficult to introduce some of these project management tools into some of these environments is because you’re just bombarded with all of this. It’s funny, I was talking to a guy who was writing about agile marketing and applying agile principles, especially for project management for helping marketing, and I told him, I was like, well, the problem with adopting some of these things is that you’re just so overwhelmed with communications that I end up resorting back to good old fashioned email and a phone call. Sometimes you do that, it’s like you were saying, sometimes it’s better to just hop on the conference call and away we go.

Linda: I know. I’m not even going to tell you how many emails I have in my inbox. I gave up after a point. I’m like, okay, if it’s important, just tell me or call me. Yeah, I would say most especially for international teams, and I’m sure this is not uncommon for anyone at any type of company with international teams, but just making sure, just nurturing that regular communication. I don’t know. Sometimes we kind of forget about them because we’re all right here, we’re all working, and I forget that I have to check in with sales leadership here as well as sales leadership here and the SDR managers here and there. Yeah, we actually do some in person, we do once or twice a year in person meetups with our international team, and then we make sure that we have at least quarterly if not monthly check-ins. That seems to work out pretty well.

It also depends on the maturity of the team. Our sales and my LDR team are pretty junior for Americas, but the international sales teams are quite mature and they focus quite a bit also on partners as well, so it’s also just understanding the nuances between the capabilities of some certain teams and how they play in.

Sean: That’s something that’s near and dear to my heart. Before joining the Infer team, I was running global marketing operations over at Nitro, and we had teams in EMEA, teams in APAC, teams in Russia and things like that. I’m curious, you mentioned in person meetings. In terms of technological decisions, you mention there’s a team in Tel Aviv. I was curious, first of all, where else are you guys spread throughout the globe, and is everything from a technological standpoint centralized at HQ in the States, or do they make independent decisions themselves about things? How does that work?

Linda: In the Incapsula product unit, we have head quarters in Redwood Shores as you know, and then we have an office in Tel Aviv, which is really where Incapsula was born. We’ve got some field reps in EMEA and in other places, APJ, but that’s typically where Incapsula’s located. Yeah, the decisions. I would say the sales ops team sits in Tel Aviv, so again, back to the Outreach example. They made that decision to move from ToutApp to Outreach out of the Tel Aviv office sales ops, but typically pretty much everything starts and ends at HQ. That’s more also because we’re right next to the IT team, the Imperva ITSS team, we’re right next to the folks that hold the budget string, so it just makes sense because we can just do a drive by and check in on did something get approved, or how can we better frame this so that the CFO sees the value in purchasing this tool, for example.

John: Linda, that’s great. How about as we’re kicking off the new year here, and we’re in the first quarter, what are you looking at as far as technologies that have got you excited or things that you might jump into or at least want to investigate?

Linda: In 2017, I’m looking at insane growth, and so what we’re going to do is look at the tool, how is it going to help us quadruple the bottom line. I’m not kidding, that’s what we’re tasked with. For example, to use a good one, Infer. We’ve really only completed our POC with Infer internally, just looking at making sure that we have everything in place reporting-wise, that it’s firing correctly, and I’d really like to roll it out big time next year. I would say other than that, probably looking at some of the reporting tools that Salesforce has to offer us. Looking at better syncing on those levels because we’re still very manually Marketo, no kidding, Excel spreadsheets for our funnel reporting. I’d like to get that out of Excel.

Sean: You’re not alone. You’re not alone.

John: Linda, if people want to learn more about what we’ve talked about today, or of course Imperva and Incapsula, what’s the best way to get in touch?

Linda: Yeah, Twitter. LKCleary is my Twitter handle, and LinkedIn is always a good one too. It’s my name spelled out with the K in the middle, Linda K Cleary.

John: Okay, and Sean of course is serving up Infer right for you at the close there. If folks need to learn more about predictive, where should they go?

Sean: Yeah, you can always go over to You can also definitely find me on all of the major social networks including Twitter, @szinsmeister, or LinkedIn, you can definitely find me there, or just Google Sean Zinsmeister. Writing a lot about AI these days and I always use the end of the year to put my pontifications into writing and hope that it can spur some thoughts. You can always find my stuff at just a quick Google search.

John: That sounds great. You can find more from me over at, and of course we do appreciate if you swing on over to iTunes, give us a review over there for Stack and Flow. Thanks for listening, and we’ll see you in the stacks.

John Wall

John Wall

John J. Wall speaks, writes and practices at the intersection of marketing, sales, and technology. He is the producer of Marketing Over Coffee, a weekly audio program that discusses marketing and technology with his co-host Christopher S. Penn, and has been featured on iTunes.

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